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Rajeev Ram's avatar

Your superhero analogy is entertaining 😆 now, I want to read a science fiction story with that premise.

Even if animals don't have a concept of property rights as such (meaning through contract law), they definitely have a sense of property, and a desiref to defend and utilize their property toward higher ends. Most human affairs are not explicitly contract-based (mediated by a large body of common law), either, historically or in the present. That's a specific artifact/innovation of post-Westphalian culture.

I even question your claim that animals don't know how to enter property agreements. Wolves that occupy the same biome carve out specific hunting grounds for their clans, and learn not to cross into other territories. Hornets (somtimes wasps, too) and bees are notoriously known for getting into death matches over hive space and food.

https://www.voyageurswolfproject.org/about-the-project

https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20240206-the-bees-learning-to-fight-off-invasive-hornets

Also, humans are not the only ones who engage in cruelty toward lesser beings. Orcas are known for toying with their prey, or even killing for fun without eating their victims.

https://www.livescience.com/63622-orca-spins-sea-turtle.html

As we learn more and more about the detailed & particular nature of intelligence, sentience, and sapience—the minutae of which will only be further exposed as the age of computation races forward—it will become more & more difficult to conceive of a comprehensive moral paradigm that encompasses all human behavior toward other humans, let alone animals, or non-human entities; and vice-versa.

None of our moral intutions are calibrated toward the present, in which we have ancient evolutionary software running alongside ridiculously fine-tuned control over both our own natures and the larger environment, both embedded in a network of instant global communication.

I certainly agree with you that torturing bugs seems wrong, but it is impossible to parse out whether that's primarily because, (1) I'm a sensitive individual, (2) I spent thirty years as a committed vegetarian on religious (dharmic) grounds, or (3) I've grown up in a society that teaches & values mercy toward the weak as a moral good.

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Annie3000's avatar

1. Animals don’t have rights because rights are a product of duties. They have no duties to us or other animals; therefore, they don’t have rights from us or any animal.

2. If animals are our moral equivalents, then they don’t have rights since no animal has rights from any animal. If we are morally superior to animals, then animals don’t have rights from us because they are morally inferior.

Animals don’t have rights no matter how you slice it.

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