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Ari Shtein's avatar

Very interesting read! I broadly agree with Silas’ comment, and am collecting some of my own thoughts on the matter… Hopefully will be able to give a full write-up of where I am tonight, and/or maybe it will turn into its own post in a day or two.

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Silas Abrahamsen's avatar

I appreciate the response!

On the shit point, I honestly just don't find myself having an intuition that eating poop is inherently morally wrong. Maybe I'm just too lost in the sauce or something, but even when I try as best I can, I don't have any noticable intuition of wrongness about eating poop. I of course think its very imprudent, disgusting, and whatnot, but morally I don't see much of anything wrong with it.

Like, if I saw someone eating some shit, I would feel bad for them, and think that they were harming themselves, etc., but I certainly wouldn't feel the urge to punish them, or consider them morally blameworthy for what they did.

Of course they're doing the small harm of causing a disgust reaction in me, but that isn't something about the inherent wrongness of the action, so to that extent I'll agree that there's something *a little* wrong with it (as well as other side-effects like disease-spread and so on).

On the point about intuitions, I broadly agree with your approach, and I suspect we may have misunderstood each other a bit. I agree that we should start with clear cases, and work out a unified theory to accommodate these through reflective equilibrium, etc.

My point was simply this: Our moral intuitions are only about cases where the facts are held fixed, not about the actual world. Our intuitions about actual cases are contingent on what inferences we make about the descriptive state of the actual world, which are subject to revision--and descriptive evidence or moral theories cannot be overturned by our moral judgements in the actual world.

To illustrate: Suppose I see someone burning a child alive. I obviously infer that that is immoral. But that is only because I infer, based on my observations etc., that the child feels pain and whatnot. If I then find out that the child is a philosophical zombie, I revise my model of what the actual world is like, and the moral judgement I made prior to this new descriptive knowledge no longer has any weight for my actual valuation of the case.

It sounds to me like your disagreement more comes down to the fact that you think the shrimp-pain world isn't bad, regardless of whether it's the actual world or a hypothetical one. I of course disagree with this (I think other clearer intuitions, combined with things like scope insensitivity may undercut how much you should trust your shrimp-intuition), but that's more of a first-order moral disagreement than a methodological one, and I actually think we may agree more or less on the general methodology.

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