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Pete McCutchen's avatar

I’ve repeatedly argued that if the shrimp-welfare people are right, the correct conclusion is to destroy all life on Earth

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Ari Shtein's avatar

Well, you've got a flair for the dramatic! Some thoughts:

This Shrimpified Repugnant Conclusion doesn't stand alone, just like the regular repugnant conclusion doesn't. It looks pretty strange when you pull just the one line out, but the point of my post was that reasoning based only on that conclusion is wrong! It's understandable, but misguided.

You're a theist, right? The problem of evil looks really bad for theism. Like, it seems super unlikely that a God could exist who allows a ton of really awful things to happen all the time. So should we all be atheists? Well, not necessarily! There's lots more evidence and argument to consider—fine tuning and anthropics and psychophysical harmony and whatever else. And then any atheist will also have their whole own class of contradictions and uglinesses to deal with—the cold indifference of the universe and so on.

Just like you can be a theist despite the problem of evil, you can be a utilitarian despite the problem of shrimp suffering. Maybe God is just weird, and maybe the moral structure of the world is just weird.

> When we try to figure out which moral theory is the true one, we must investigate each theory to its logical conclusion. If Libertarianism says that wild animal suffering is not a moral emergency and Utilitarianism says that wild animal suffering is the world’s greatest moral emergency, that’s a huge point in favor of Libertarianism and against Utilitarianism.

This is absolutely right! But (moral) Libertarianism has a host of its own problems to deal with—for example, it implies that it would be permissible to walk by a child drowning in a pond if I simply decided I didn't want to save her. In fact, it seems like it totally ignores *any* ethical obligations simply on the grounds of "nah, don't wanna." I think that's a bigger problem than a conclusion that boils down basically to: "when many billions of things suffer terribly, it's very extremely bad, to the point that even humanity's concerns become secondary."

Same goes for "Kantianism, Virtue Ethics, and Natural Law theory," and whatever else. Utilitarianism wins a lot of very fundamental fights that make each of these alternatives extremely unappealing. Bentham's Bulldog goes through some: https://benthams.substack.com/p/utilitarianism-is-true

> I think that wild animal suffering disproves Utilitarianism.

Nah. It's an unintuitive result! It provides some evidence against it! But you'd need a much much larger case to really *disprove* it.

> Spending your entire life as a slave to shrimp is clearly morally wrong because it is a waste of your life. The exclusive concern for shrimp rather than more lofty ideals flies in the face of morality.

This is question-begging! You're assuming the "face of morality" doesn't care about shrimp.

Ok, last point I want to make: it's ok to be fairly doubtful of utilitarianism on Shrimp Repugnance grounds. But they shouldn't bear on pseudo-utilitarian frameworks like Richard Chappell's Beneficentrism: https://www.goodthoughts.blog/p/beneficentrism. If you're really very uncomfortable with shrimp welfare, just... donate to other utilitarian causes. Plenty of good global health charities out there!

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